Difference between revisions of "X-UAV Mini Talon Build Number 3"

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[[File:BTI.png|link=AIRCRAFT|AIRCRAFT]]<br>
 
[[File:BTI.png|link=AIRCRAFT|AIRCRAFT]]<br>
−
<i>February 2017</i><br>
+
[[File:cc_image.png|20px]]<i><small> Mark Qvale - February, 2017</small></i><br>
 
{| cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1" width="95%" border="0"
 
{| cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1" width="95%" border="0"
 
|-
 
|-
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==<br> Introduction - Mini Talon Number 3 ==
 
==<br> Introduction - Mini Talon Number 3 ==
  
−
Not so much a "build" but rather a rebuild and conversion. Mini Talon #2 unfortunately was nearly destroyed due to an ESC failure so I decided to repair it and convert it to a twin motor unit using my recently designed twin motor mounts.<br><br>
+
Not so much a "build" but rather a rebuild and conversion. Mini Talon #2 unfortunately was nearly destroyed due to an ESC failure so I decided to repair it and convert it to a twin motor unit using my recently designed twin motor mounts.<br>
 +
 
 +
'''Note:''' Please see [[X-UAV Mini Talon Build Number 2]] for more information.<br><br>
  
 
== General Specifications  ==
 
== General Specifications  ==
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|  
 
|  
 
| align="right" | Max Continuous Power (4S) -&nbsp;
 
| align="right" | Max Continuous Power (4S) -&nbsp;
−
| TBA watts continuous (4S)
+
| 300 watts continuous (4S)
 
|-
 
|-
 
| align="right" | Propeller -&nbsp;
 
| align="right" | Propeller -&nbsp;
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|  
 
|  
 
| align="right" | Max Prop Power -&nbsp;
 
| align="right" | Max Prop Power -&nbsp;
−
| TBA watts @ 2550ft ASL
+
| 316 watts @ 2550ft ASL
 
|-
 
|-
 
| align="right" | Static Thrust -&nbsp;
 
| align="right" | Static Thrust -&nbsp;
−
| TBA @ 2550ft ASL
+
| 1496g @ 2550ft ASL
 
|  
 
|  
 
| align="right" | *Static Thrust/Weight -&nbsp;
 
| align="right" | *Static Thrust/Weight -&nbsp;
−
| TBA
+
| 0.92
 
|-
 
|-
 
| align="right" | Battery Type -&nbsp;
 
| align="right" | Battery Type -&nbsp;
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|-
 
|-
 
| align="right" | In flight efficiency -&nbsp;
 
| align="right" | In flight efficiency -&nbsp;
−
| TBA <!--<130mAh/mile (<81mAh/km) Typ.-->
+
| ~130mAh/mile (~81mAh/km) Typ.
 
|  
 
|  
 
| align="right" | Flight Time -&nbsp;
 
| align="right" | Flight Time -&nbsp;
−
| TBA
+
| Close to one hour*
 
|-
 
|-
 
| align="right" | COG -&nbsp;
 
| align="right" | COG -&nbsp;
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For power on this build I have chosen the Multistar 2209-980kv motors. For ESC's, I am using two HobbyKing Blue Series 20A with extra Low ESR capacitors added.<br><br>
 
For power on this build I have chosen the Multistar 2209-980kv motors. For ESC's, I am using two HobbyKing Blue Series 20A with extra Low ESR capacitors added.<br><br>
  
−
:* Motor - Multistar 2209-980kv
+
:* Motor - 2X Multistar 2209-980kv
−
:* ESC - Blue Series 20A
+
:* ESC - 2X Blue Series 20A
−
:* Prop - Graupner Cam Carbon E-Prop 8x5
+
:* Prop - Graupner Cam Carbon E-Prop 8x5 CW & CCW
 
:* Battery - Multistar 4S/5200, 10C<br><br>
 
:* Battery - Multistar 4S/5200, 10C<br><br>
  
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{| border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1" width="700" align="center"
 
{| border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1" width="700" align="center"
 
|-
 
|-
−
| align="center" | [[File:MS2209-980_Numbers.JPG|700px]]
+
| align="center" | [[File:MS2209-980_MT8x5.JPG|700px]]
 
|}
 
|}
 
<br><br>
 
<br><br>
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{| border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1" width="700" align="center"
 
{| border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1" width="700" align="center"
 
|-
 
|-
−
| align="center" | [[File:MTT07.JPG|700px]]
+
| align="center" | [[File:MTT07.jpg|700px]]
 
|-
 
|-
 
| align="center" | Gear Deck
 
| align="center" | Gear Deck
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|-
 
|-
 
| align="center" | Simple Twin motor mount
 
| align="center" | Simple Twin motor mount
 +
|}
 +
<br><br>
 +
 +
The motors must be pointed exactly the same so I lined them up vertically using two straight edges then using a long straight edge I made sure the motor mounts were parallel<br><br>
 +
 +
{| border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1" width="700" align="center"
 +
|-
 +
| align="center" | [[File:MT Twin Top Sketch.jpg|700px]]
 +
|-
 +
| align="center" | Motor mount alignment
 
|}
 
|}
 
<br>
 
<br>
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== Flight Characteristics and Impressions ==
 
== Flight Characteristics and Impressions ==
 +
 +
The first thing I noticed is connecting the battery is a little concerning because you must put your hands between two spinning swords of finger death (props) to get to the connectors.<br>
 +
 +
I won't lie, the launch is terrifying. Even with 0 degrees thrust angle, the plane wants to dive on launch. It doesn't roll at all because I am using counter-rotating props but that is the only good launch characteristic. After several near death experiences I finally started throwing the plane as hard as I could on full power and then it would just take off straight like a bullet! Once I figured this out I launched a few times on the flat dry lake bed I usually fly with success. But it was still scary.<br>
 +
 +
As far as in flight manners the plane is a rock. No strange tendencies, stall is flat with no tip drop. It will stay straight level and at altitude with only 24% throttle which makes it slightly more efficient than it was with the Cobra motor. It doesn't like to do rudder turns but coordinated aileron turns are fine.<br>
 +
 +
It sounds very cool and it is <u>very</u> quiet at cruise speed. Landing is a non-issue.<br>
 +
 +
There is a lot to like about this conversion although the launch characteristics are a concern which I will try and work out.<br><br>
 +
 +
'''Update:'''<br>
 +
After 26 flights and various changes to try and get the twin to behave on launch I have destroyed it in a crash. A completely '''NOOB''' error on my part caused by being in a hurry and plugging a PnT into the RX without powering the RX from the servo rail. This caused the FC voltage to drop below 3.5v when I went to pan the camera and reset the Flight controller.<br>
 +
 +
{| border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1" width="700" align="center"
 +
|-
 +
| align="center" | [[File:MT3 Fail.jpg|800px]]
 +
|}
 +
<br><br>
  
 
== See Also  ==
 
== See Also  ==
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:[http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2043439 Mini-Talon on RC Groups]  
 
:[http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2043439 Mini-Talon on RC Groups]  
 
:[[Mini Talon Noses]]
 
:[[Mini Talon Noses]]
−
:[[Mini Talon X-UAV from FPV Model‏‎]]
+
:[[Mini Talon Parts Compilation]]
−
:[[Mini Talon X-UAV Build Number 2]]
+
:[[X-UAV Mini Talon Build Number 1]]
 +
:[[X-UAV Mini Talon Build Number 2]]
 +
:[[X-UAV Mini Talon Build Number 4]]
 +
:[[X-UAV Mini Talon Build Compilation]]
 +
:[[Parts Catalog - Mini Talon]]
 
<br>
 
<br>
  
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: [https://alofthobbies.com/ Aloft Hobbies]
 
: [https://alofthobbies.com/ Aloft Hobbies]
 
: [http://www.readymaderc.com/store/ Ready Made RC]
 
: [http://www.readymaderc.com/store/ Ready Made RC]
−
<br>
 
−
 
−
=== Comments? Questions? ===
 
−
 
−
:'''<u>[mailto:qmar80@hotmail.com?Subject=About%20The%20Mini%20Talon%20Number%203&body=Question? email me!]</u>'''
 
  
 
<br><br><br>
 
<br><br><br>
 
[[Category:Contents]]
 
[[Category:Contents]]
 
[[Category:Planes]]
 
[[Category:Planes]]

Latest revision as of 13:55, 6 January 2023

AIRCRAFT
Cc image.png Mark Qvale - February, 2017

MTT01.jpg
  A Twin!


Introduction - Mini Talon Number 3

Not so much a "build" but rather a rebuild and conversion. Mini Talon #2 unfortunately was nearly destroyed due to an ESC failure so I decided to repair it and convert it to a twin motor unit using my recently designed twin motor mounts.

Note: Please see X-UAV Mini Talon Build Number 2 for more information.

General Specifications

Distributor - BangGood USA
Aircraft - X-UAV Mini Talon
Build Date - April 2017

Airframe Type -  Top Wing V-Tail FPV Specialist All-Up Weight -  57oz (1620g) w/ 4S/5200 Pack
Wingspan -  51 inches (1300mm) Length -  33 inches (830mm)
Wing Area -  3.23 ft^2 (30dm^2) *Wing Load -  17.6 oz/ft^2 (53.7g/dm^2)
Motor -  Multistar 2209-980kv x2 Max Continuous Power (4S) -  300 watts continuous (4S)
Propeller -  8 x 5 Graupner Cam Carbon E-Props Max Prop Power -  316 watts @ 2550ft ASL
Static Thrust -  1496g @ 2550ft ASL *Static Thrust/Weight -  0.92
Battery Type -  4S1P Lipo Battery Capacity -  5200mah/10C
In flight efficiency -  ~130mAh/mile (~81mAh/km) Typ. Flight Time -  Close to one hour*
COG -  60mm @ Wing root (Stock) *With the  5200mAh pack 


Flight Gear

The following are some of my selected components with links to some of my favorite vendors.

Power Set-up

For power on this build I have chosen the Multistar 2209-980kv motors. For ESC's, I am using two HobbyKing Blue Series 20A with extra Low ESR capacitors added.

  • Motor - 2X Multistar 2209-980kv
  • ESC - 2X Blue Series 20A
  • Prop - Graupner Cam Carbon E-Prop 8x5 CW & CCW
  • Battery - Multistar 4S/5200, 10C

MTT03.jpg


MTT04.jpg



Power Test

The results below are for a single motor using a flight pack for power.

MS2209-980 MT8x5.JPG



Flight Control

For flight control I used the same APM 2.8 already installed from MT#2. It is very inexpensive and in my experience completely reliable.

w/Arduplane 3.4


RC Control

For radio gear I kept my standard DragonLink V2 system.

MTT07.jpg
Gear Deck



OSD

For an OSD I kept the Micro MinimOSD from MT#2 which is reliable and easy to set-up with the APM.

w/Firmware r800



Video Downlink

For the video downlink I kept the RMRC 400mw 1.2/1.3G VTx with a DragonLink video dipole. For an FPV camera I kept the HS1184 from MT #2.

Airframe Build and Assembly

For this conversion I printed up some previously designed motor mounts.

Mount Assy v4.JPG
Simple Twin motor mount



The motors must be pointed exactly the same so I lined them up vertically using two straight edges then using a long straight edge I made sure the motor mounts were parallel

MT Twin Top Sketch.jpg
Motor mount alignment


Gear Deck

The Gear deck was pretty much unchanged from MT#2 with the exception of adding the two 20A ESC's underneath.

MTT06.jpg



Ruddervators and Wings

Nothing new or special here. I kept them unchanged from MT#2.

Maiden Video!

The maiden of the Twin Mini Talon #3 was, well, iffy! It was a beautiful 78 degree morning in Spring Canyon and wind was near zero. After a very crazy/scary launch everything worked as I'd hoped and I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of power out of these two tiny motors. Next will be some longer range shake-down flights.

Enjoy!


Maiden Day - 14 February, 2017



Flight Characteristics and Impressions

The first thing I noticed is connecting the battery is a little concerning because you must put your hands between two spinning swords of finger death (props) to get to the connectors.

I won't lie, the launch is terrifying. Even with 0 degrees thrust angle, the plane wants to dive on launch. It doesn't roll at all because I am using counter-rotating props but that is the only good launch characteristic. After several near death experiences I finally started throwing the plane as hard as I could on full power and then it would just take off straight like a bullet! Once I figured this out I launched a few times on the flat dry lake bed I usually fly with success. But it was still scary.

As far as in flight manners the plane is a rock. No strange tendencies, stall is flat with no tip drop. It will stay straight level and at altitude with only 24% throttle which makes it slightly more efficient than it was with the Cobra motor. It doesn't like to do rudder turns but coordinated aileron turns are fine.

It sounds very cool and it is very quiet at cruise speed. Landing is a non-issue.

There is a lot to like about this conversion although the launch characteristics are a concern which I will try and work out.

Update:
After 26 flights and various changes to try and get the twin to behave on launch I have destroyed it in a crash. A completely NOOB error on my part caused by being in a hurry and plugging a PnT into the RX without powering the RX from the servo rail. This caused the FC voltage to drop below 3.5v when I went to pan the camera and reset the Flight controller.

MT3 Fail.jpg



See Also

Mini-Talon on RC Groups
Mini Talon Noses
Mini Talon Parts Compilation
X-UAV Mini Talon Build Number 1
X-UAV Mini Talon Build Number 2
X-UAV Mini Talon Build Number 4
X-UAV Mini Talon Build Compilation
Parts Catalog - Mini Talon


Project 3D Print Files

For more information, please see my Thingiverse postings here:
Mark_q Thingiverse Designs

Some of the Vendors I used for this project

R/C Dude Hobbies
Ready To Fly Quads
Aloft Hobbies
Ready Made RC




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